It seems that one of my favorite bloggers, Alexa, has become the target of a rather vicious online forum. To summarize: Alexa’s premature daughter Simone has been fighting for her life in the NICU. Through URL referrals to her blog, Alexa discovered that a childfree-by-choice online forum has been discussing how inhumane it is for her to keep the baby alive. Some of the posters on that site have called Alexa and Simone names and said some rather mean things.
If you would like to support Alexa, please go over to her blog and do so. My purpose in posting this information is to ignite a discussion on freedom of speech—not to start a debate on child-free living vs. child-wanting living vs. parenting.
On the Internet, there is a site/forum for just about any opinion under the sun. If you want to vent about x, y or z, there’s a place for you to do so. The First Amendment guarantees that we can say whatever we want, whenever we want. But should we?
It is easy for me, a woman who desperately wants to be a mother, to say that it is cruel to insult a new mom and her sick baby on a public forum. But then I think about some of the IF forums and sites I have frequented that insult “Mommy bloggers” and parenting forums out of jealousy. What makes them any more sanctimonious?
For that matter, I have vented about specific people in my life on this very blog. I can’t remember right now just how acidic some of the venting has become (mental note: read my own archives), but I can guarantee you I have regularly read some bloggers who often do post mean things about the people in their lives. I forgive them for anything that might rub me the wrong way because I agree and sympathize with their point of view. We all take great pains to make sure those people don’t ever find our blogs, but does that make it right?
None of the members of this online forum ever posted nasty comments on Alexa’s blog. Rather, they carelessly posted the link to her blog on their forum, probably not considering that she might check her stats occasionally.
Was it right for them to say what they were saying when they thought the only people reading their forum were those of like mind?
I ask you, again, that you try to keep the particular subject out of consideration in your answers to these questions. I want to debate the general subject, not the specific grievance.
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21 comments:
Very good food for thought. I've vented myself on my own blog, thinking that if anywhere, that's the place to do it. I think the Internet gives us this feeling of anonymity that can be very dangerous sometimes.
I'm so sorry for your friend. I'll post a note of support.
I think there is a way to vent without necessarily being vicious. I have vented about my mother, my SIL and various people in my life but it is nothing more than I'd be willing to say to their face. So, if they happened to ever come across my blog, I don't think any of it would be surprising.
To call an innocent baby names is just unforgiveable, IMHO. They do have the constitutional right to post their feelings about the matter but I think name-calling takes it to another level. It becomes less about supporting a point and more about verbally attacking someone. It's easy to be mean to someone when you haven't walked in their shoes. Frankly, it makes them less credible to me when they act like school-age children. You can have an intelligent post about something as sensitive as this subject without resorting to those tactics.
Off my soapbox now. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It is a great topic and all of us should consider this when we write for the world to see.
In theory, I think they have a right to say whatever they want. I think it was a therapist who told me once that we have a right to feel whatever we want, but we don't always have a right to act on it. If they honestly thought she'd never see, it might be a safe way of expressing those feelings.
That said I'm shocked by the fact that they have these feelings that are so cruel. It does make me question the "childless by choice" label.
Agree with the above commenter.
Also, Alexa's story resonates with me. A classmate's wife miscarried her first baby, then twins.
Then she had a very high risk pregnancy and was dilated at 24 weeks. Somehow they managed to pull on till 27 weeks and they had a baby way too preemie. Seeing Alexa's pictures reminded me of my visit to see the baby in the NICU.
He is perfect now! :D
I went over to Alexa's blog but the comments are turned off. I don't know how anybody can say those things about her sweet daughter.
I guess I am guilty of saying things about family members on my blog. Maybe even venting. Although I think most of the things I have said on my blog, I wouldn't be afraid to say in Public to the person and in fact have discussed with many of the same people in real life. I think it is just terrible that people are intentionally mean to other bloggers. Even if you don't neccessarily agree with something can't you have a debate about it without resorting to blatant rudeness. The few times I have disagreed with a blogger, I either remained commentless for the day or I tried to say it in a tactful way. I guess the overall thing is if you disagree with things that I am saying on my blog, stay away rather than being blatanly mean. I hope that answers your questions.
For the most part, people are caring and considerate. They follow that golden rule of doing unto others. They root for the underdogs and cheer on people dealing with struggles.
But there are a select few, however, who are caught up in their own misery, self riteousness, and bitterness and feel the need to share those views with others. While I do believe that a person should be able to feel, think, and express whatever they need, I do have a problem when people are named, especially when they weren't given consent to do so. It is possible to express your feeling without directing those thoughts to a specific person. That is inexcusable part in my opinion.
I, too, was visited by someone who was determined to spew hatred about me and my very premature babies. The hardest part for me was not that they said something negative (although it was very hurtful), it was that the person felt the need to continually come back to say more. Why the person had to go out of his/her way to say all that was said is beyond me. And I do believe that the person had to have come from the infertility world, at least periferally--that is the only place my blog was circulated. I had to go no anon comments because of it.
Anyway, thank you for putting this out there for people to think about. If it stops just one person from writing something hurtful, it will be well worth it.
The internet is totally an open forum and as such, there are many wack-a-doodles out there along with every type of opinion from here to moon base alpha. I think its kinda like violence on television/video games, etc. If you don't like it--don't read it. Heck, I did not even know that site existed before now.
So, being totally happy with freedom of speech for everyone, I do feel there are lines that should not be crossed. I think when you viciously attack another site, that is wrong. And frankly, while they did not specifically post on her site, they did link to it, and that could be construed as an attack. They can post feelings and thoughts about the situation, but to link to someone's blog (especially when it is obviously not a blog about their specific gripes--i.e. its not advocating for or against the issues they raise--this is a personal blog). That is where I have the issue--well, the nice, polite "freedom of speech" issue, at any rate. Personally, of course, I have MAJOR issues with them picking on innocents and people in grief...
It's a good question. I don't write anything I wouldn't say to the person's face in the same manner--whether it's a celebrity or another blogger or a person in my face-to-face life. The reality is that the Internet may be a big place, but people have a way of finding things. So I consider myself always taking in a room where these people could overhear.
What people fail to keep in mind when they do something like what was done to Alexa is forget that there are very real people with very real feelings on the other side of that blog/computer. Do these bulletin board people also go down to the NICU and jeer at parents as they come out from seeing their children?
Mel said it so well ... people forget that the pics on the internet are of real live people.
I actually cried at work because Alexa's post made me so furious. I consider IF/pregnancy blogs a safe haven and sometimes forget that people who don't get us might be gawking at us.
Of course they have the right to say what they say. However, I would add the caveat that we all have the responsibility to walk a mile in each others shoes and treat each other accordingly. For this reason I self-censor myself on my blog and keep the vitriol for my personal journal. I'd hate for a fleeting bitterness to become public record.
I'm not sure why such commenters would choose to link their choice with cruel personal attacks against a woman and her child. I myself have always been supportive of the choice to not have children, though it's not my thing itself. Stooping so low does not help explain their cause, but rather paints them as the self-centered immature folks many misguided folks like to view them as.
It would be one thing if someone read the blog, went over to their own forum & said, something like, "I was reading a blog today & it got me thinking about the NICU experience" & got the conversation going in a "theoretically speaking" way. But to specifically link to this vulnerable new mother's blog without her knowledge, & leave her open to lord knows what kind of hurtful comments... that was definitely wrong. I can't blame her for turning off her comments.
I think Kristen put it well - they can say what they want, but they should argue on facts and stats, not on name-calling and opinions. One of the things that annoys me most in arguments with anyone is when they can't backup their claim - make it real or don't make it.
I can appreciate that it is hard to leave bias behind when someone feels particularly worked up on a subject, but personal attacks are just unacceptable in my book. I for one try very hard *not* to be the Ann Coulter of infertiles as that does nothing but force people to take sides. When there's a point to be made I strive instead to be more Jon Stewart-like, but it takes true talent to attempt satire and I don't always succeed. That's why before I post thoughts on the 'Net I do my best to ensure that I do no harm.
I think you can have whatever feelings you want and blog about whatever you want ... when you do it in a subtle, no-names, no-links kind of way.
The Internet is a public forum. In my eyes, there's a line.
This is an interesting and thought provoking discussion. I am fertile, but I read a lot of blogs about others struggling with infertility. Sometimes I am hurt by referrals to "fertile bitches" or insinuations that I did not count my pregnancies or children as blessings because they were "easily" come by. However, I always remember that I am "invading" their space, where they have a right to vent their anger and pain and frustration and that their comments are not directed at me specifically.
I guess this forum have a right to discuss their opinion of pulling through premie babies, but as Loribeth said, why not do it in a general/theoretical way? Why discuss a specific person and baby and cause incredible hurt in a situation that is already painful enough. With freedom of speech comes responsibility as well. What this forum has done may be bordering on slander!
Yeah, I read Alexa's post about it, but she had comments closed so I couldn't add my 0.02c. I guess they should have been more careful- if you HAVE to say hurtful things which you don't plan for the target to hear (which seems to be the case here) then don't linkback.Obvious, really.
But probably it would be better not so say them at all (especailly such ignorant dross), however people will always say nasty things, somewhere....
J
My mom always taught me: "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all."
I think we have a right to feel/write whatever we want to feel - but, when it becomes vicious and offensive, then a line has been crossed. Especially for Alexa, who has been through so much already - and is desperately praying, hoping, pleading for Simone to grow up healthy. These people who have trashed her and her Simone are just immature with no tact or caring for another human being. May they never have to be in the same place as Alexa...
Thank for your posting this... Only reinforces how supportive our community is with each other.
I think I would say that the issue is less with their opinions and more with their targeting. Say what you want, but don't link to Alexa's blog and don't use her as a specific example.
Even more importantly, DO NOT EVER go to her blog and comment.
That's my thing I guess. Believe whatever you want to, but leave me free to do the same.
Venting in ones own forum is one thing, but being malicious is another. Especially when its not a one sided "Im having a shitty day and want to complain" type vent.
I read your friends post, and could feel the anger rightfully dripping from your friend. Her daughter is beautiful...please tell her I said that!
I am child free, and not by choice. Yet I hope never to be that bitter that I would attack someone who is blessed enough to watch their child thrive!
Wow. I got into a debate on blogher about abortion. I wandered into the debate quite knowingly, because the poster was talking about life trumping choice, and she made it seem so neat, so easy, and so clear cut.
After loosing my son, I realized that very little was clear cut. I was astounded at what women were willing to say to people. There were any number of women who were quite willing to suggest that I should have died, and should have been willing to die, so that my son would have had the teeny-ist chance at life. And I was deeply, deeply ashamed. Most of these women were professing Christians, who were spewing hate and vitrol.
I think the answer whenever it comes to difficult situations is to be compassionate and silent. And to avoid debates on people. We can have a debate on end of life care, but we don't have to use my grandmother and euthanasia.
On the other hand, after talking about what happened to me, I think there were some people who changed what their opinion on abortion was.
I kept this tab open to your post, because I've been thinking about this, among other things.
And really, it's not enough to say if you wouldn't do it in real life, don't do it on the net.
When we are mean, it hurts us as much as the person we are being mean to. It does. We have to be better than that if we ever want to heal from our pain.
Yes, sometimes I vent on my blog, and maybe too much. I am trying to be kinder and I've discovered that the few times I still need to vent is when someone is not available in real life, and I can get no justice.
I think that by attacking Alexa these people were really trying to say that they want us to shut up, to go away, they don't want to know about the pain and agony we face. So they attack us, and hate us, and say horrible things to us in desperate attempt to shut us down.
They don't want to know our truth, and so they try to hurt us.
When I vent, I am trying to tell people about my pain so that they will know it. I'm not trying to hurt others. I am trying to free myself, if that makes sense?
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